Photo by Gaui H Photography

For the final Zombitrol At Home interview, I spoke to Heri Joensen, known for being the frontman of the Fareose metal band Týr. He’s got a new gothic/symphonic metal band with Czech vocalist Viktorie Surmová, and they’ve just released their debut album The Light Within (you can read my review here).

Týr’s early albums could technically be described as folk metal, with the caveat that Faroese folk music is largely acapella. So while other bands were making folk instrumentation more metal, Týr was creating original metal compositions to blend with traditional vocals. These albums are elaborate and progressive, overflowing in traditional compositions and beautiful vocal harmonies. It was 2009’s By The Light of the Northern Star, that saw the songs get shorter and tighter, with less long flowing prog solos, in favour of a more traditional metal style. It was this change that saw them move from a solid main support band, to a consistent headliner.

"I can see this clearly from Týr, that the simpler and more straightforward songs are the ones that people like, (and) are the ones that are much more likely to be successful songs,” says Joensen seriously.

“If you really want to make a living of this, then you have to consider that when you write the music. I think with (The Light Within) I tried to resist all my instincts to (be) more elaborate and make it more progressive. More than a few times we took it down a notch and made it simpler and less winding, less lengthy. That part was a conscious decision. You’re a music enthusiast, and I think most people who listen to music aren’t. So am I, I love all good music. I can get quite nerdy about it. But most people are just listening while, I don’t know, driving or whatever they’re doing. I can simply see the numbers on YouTube, on Spotify, that the simpler songs get way, way more attention. It’s nice to have done the other stuff, but it simply comes down in the end to how do you make a living of this, and that is by making the simpler songs. Something that has a better chance of becoming popular. That’s not the same as selling out. They are still songs that I will stand by 100%, even though they are shorter, simpler, and more straight to the point. That is not the same as selling out, and there’s a line, a balance to find in-between those things I think. I still have my other project Heljareyga, and I have some songs there, 10 or around there that I’m working on now and then, that are quite lengthy. I’ll get my progressive songs into that, and leave Týr and Surma more straight to the point.”

The shift in sound also saw Joensen’s original lyrics become more prominent, and more of his personality began to shine through, even if he was writing in a historical context. So when it seems on the surface that many of Týr’s songs are purely mythological, they are always from a personal perspective.

“Whenever I’m writing the lyrics myself there’s always something personal in it,” says Joensen.

“If there isn’t, you have lyrics like ‘Alexander The Great’ by Iron Maiden, where they’re simply reciting historical facts, which isn’t terribly interesting honestly. It’s nice to memorize for your history test (laughs), but it’s not really that interesting. What I like, the first modern Faroese poet Jens Djurhuss he modernized (in the Faroes at least, I’m sure it was modern in the mainland before that), poetry about ancient subjects with a personal angle, because a personal angle is rarely ever there in mythology and medieval literature. I think the personal angle is very valuable, and you can almost only do it from your own value system and experience. I have a personal point that I want to get across when I write lyrics, no matter how mythological they are.”

Despite this value placed on the personal within the mythological, when I’ve broached the subject in the past, Joensen hasn’t always been forthcoming with the more personal experiences behind his lyrics. But with Surma, his personal life is front and centre, as the band is perhaps a literal labour of love with lead singer Viktorie Surmová. Head over to Surma’s official page and you’re greeted by a dominating photo of Joensen and Surmová superimposed by the band’s heart-shaped logo. To Joensen, Surma is not a side-band, but full-time group that exists alongside Týr. But what came first? Collaboration or romance?

“Romance came first!” says Joensen laughing.

“We were on tour in 2016 in Europe and Viktorie was working for one of the organizers of the show here. First time I laid my eyes on her I was completely blown away, and well, we got to know each other and we’ve been together ever since. This logo, she came up with the basic idea for it. That’s kind of random, it’s not directly related to our relationship. It’s a funny coincidence. That was actually not deliberate. I don’t think I’ve made a deliberate effort to be a private person. There’s just not much interesting about me, other than the music.”

The Light Within, while far more symphonic than Týr’s music, is also steeped in history. Each song on the album is inspired by a different historical sculpture from around the world.

“Viktorie came up with that,” says Joensen.

“The basic idea for the whole album (came from) the memorial for the victims of the communist dictatorship of Czechoslovakia that existed here for decades. It’s a creepy-looking memorial at the very center of the city. It’s lit up from the ground, so that if you walk past it in the dark it’s very eerie. This was not meant to be a political album, this is really meant to be a personal, individual album.”


Surma 2021: (L to R) Rens Bourgondien (Bass), Aleksandr Zhukov (Drums), Viktorie Surmová (Vocals), Heri Joensen (Guitars/Vocals)
Photo by Krystof Peterka

Joensen is spending most of his time in Prague these days. He’s arguably the most well-known Faroese person in the world, so I did wonder if there’s any pressure for him to live back home, since he’s become the main cultural icon of a nation of over 50,000 people.

“The biggest reason that there’s no chance I can live there is the level of cost of everything,” he says after some thought.

“As you know, things are pretty much cheaper here in Czechia. With the income that a struggling musician such as myself has at the moment, there’s just no chance I can live in the Faroes. I’d like to live there, that much I can admit, right now it’s more convenient to be here. Of course there’s some people who would like that I was in the Faroes, but it’s not for professional reasons. You know, for personal reasons obviously. I have 2 kids there. Of course for band business it would be much more convenient even to be closer to (Týr bassist) Gunnar (Thomsen). For some things this is not the optimal situation, but for others it’s more convenient.”

Joensen’s other brush with international fame has come from a strange place, as he invoked the ire of the controversial environmental activist Paul Watson, who captains the anti-whaling ship Sea Shepherd. The whole incident started with a personal Facebook post that Joensen made while participating in an annual Faroese whaling ritual where he wrote “real men kill their own meat.” I saw the post at the time, and although I eat meat myself, I found it to be a bit silly, but nothing more. I was shocked to see Joensen essentially labelled as Public Enemy #1 by Watson, followed by protests at Týr shows around the world.

“I think looking back on how the whole thing went, I think I would agree with you, it was not the right thing to say,” says Joensen frankly.

“It was a joke not meant to imply the existing or missing masculinity of anybody. I honestly didn’t think it would get that much attention. Had I known, I would not have made that comment. I (don’t) have that reach, Sea Sheperd has that reach. They took it and blew it up. If it weren’t for their actions it would have been nothing. They have a very well-functioning… I would call it a propaganda machine, and they put it to its full use. It’s very effective.”

Joensen and Watson haven’t exactly met face-to-face as of yet. They had a conversation on the Animal Planet channel, and Watson turned up as protest outside one of Týr’s shows in California (Joensen says he walked right past him and wasn’t recognized). It's true that Watson has a far bigger reach than a metal band from the Faroes, and it made me wonder if Týr actually gained any new fans from the exposure via Sea Shepherd’s crusade against them.

“I know for a fact we have, yes,” says Joensen excitedly.

“People who say that they heard about us only because of that, and they came to the show, bought a ticket to support us. On the last U.S. tour I heard that maybe 10-15 times.”

Despite the Animal Planet appearance, Joensen’s actual views on whaling in the Faroes have not received much attention. The controversy created by Watson positions Joensen as a kind of official figurehead for the practice. The reality is that his views on the subject are not black-and-white enough to suit that narrative. 

“Depends on how you do it, and why you do it,” he says.

“Of course it’s of vital importance how much suffering the animal has to go through for you to harvest the meat. As I understand, Japanese shark-finning, they cut the fins off a shark while it’s alive and let it go back into the ocean with its fins missing. That would be illegal in the Faroes for the last several decades. You’re not allowed to harm any large ocean animal unless you have specific permission or orders to do so. You’re certainly not allowed put a scratch on a whale as long as it has a chance of escaping. You have to secure it properly on the beach before you kill it. It’s not helpful to paint the issue with a broad brush.”


Týr 2021: (L to R) Tadeusz Rieckmann (Drums), Hans Hammer (Guitars), Heri Joensen (Vocals/Guitars), Gunnar Thomsen (Bass/Vocals)
Photo by Gaui H Photography

Surma was ready to head out on tour when the shutdown hit. In the meantime Joensen has spent his time creating merch stores for both bands, and working on new music. His pandemic routine has been pretty solid. After he wakes up he exercises and works on band merch orders. He then writes and records music from the afternoon until midnight. Luckily for his fans, these daily sessions seem to have been going really, really well.

“I’ve been working on mostly Týr. I have a folder in my computer called ‘The 9th Album,’ and one called ‘The 10th Album,’ even,” he says with an audible smile.

“That one has maybe 15 songs. I’m not really sure where to put every right now, and Gunnar and (drummer) Tadeusz (Rieckmann) are also working on their own ideas for the next album. I’ve made some recordings, guitar, and wrote some lyrics. A few more months of work and we’ll have (it) ready. I started making a guitar album. Just with my own guitars, bass, and drums. Will I ever get to that? (laughs) I’m not sure. I also started making an acoustic album. I have a lot of material that I hope I will get to one day. I don’t think we’ll have too much, ever. You can still release a full album every 2 years, and even doing that requires your absolute full-time attention. I don’t think we’re in danger of getting anywhere close to that.”

Joensen is overall quite an easy-going person, but that’s not to say that he isn’t passionate about his opinions. So when asked if there was any kind of message or lesson that he’s taken away from the pandemic, he didn’t hold on back. But unlike others who can be outspoken, he knows that not everything is an absolute, and in the end we only have our own perspective.

“One thing that has become worse during the last year definitely, is the common misconception that the internet is a real world,” he says as seriously as I’ve ever heard him.

“That was already bad before the lockdown, and now that people are forced to sit at home with no access to the world but the internet, that’s clearly become worse. People should try every now and then to go a whole day without a screen, I think that would be very helpful. I’ve thought about many, many things. But it also depends on what personality you have, which issues you’re going through. As for someone like me? The lockdown and isolation hasn’t been very tough. I’m a very introverted and un-social person. I’d probably be going on just like it is now, even if it weren’t for pandemic, save for the tours and shows. But if you’re a very outgoing and sociable person, then you might have completely different issues than I would have from this, and I would have no idea how to address those issues. I can only speak for myself.”

You can stream Surma’s The Light Within in it’s entirety here, and Týr’s most recent album, 2019’s Hel here. Check out Surma’s debut video for the track “Until It Rains Again” below.

 

 


Chthonic Megaport Festival 2021: (L to R) Dani Wang (Drums), Doris Yeh (Bass), CJ Kao (Keyboards/Synths), Jesse Liu (Guitar), Freddy Lim (Vocals)
Background: Special Guest Audrey Tang
All Photos Courtesy of Freddy Lim & Chthonic 

The success story of the Taiwanese black metal band Chthonic (pronounced “Thon-ik”) and its frontman Freddy Lim could only be described as inexplicable. There are musicians who have become notable politicians, and there are heavy metal musicians who have achieved some degree of mainstream notoriety. But not only has Chthonic become a part of Taiwanese mainstream pop culture, but Lim is now a twice-elected legislator in parliament.

Let’s start with how a black metal band has become the most influential and beloved act of an entire nation. Chthonic found local success in the late 90s – early 00s. Their blend of black metal with Taiwanese historical themes, and use of the erhu (two-string violin), resonated immediately with a varied audience. When Chthonic won “Best Band” at the Golden Melody Awards (the Taiwanese equivalent of a Juno or Grammy) in 2003, it was regarded as an upset. That was arguably the beginning of their national artistic invasion. By the time the band started to gain significant attention outside Taiwan, Lim had already starred in a historical drama film, met with the Dalai Lama, and become the chair of Amnesty International Taiwan. As of today, Chthonic, a black metal band, has established itself as a Taiwanese cultural watershed, with complete penetration across all musical genres and artistic mediums.

“We played a remarkable show in the square in front of the President Hall in 2019,” says Lim when I reach him around 9am Taiwan time.

“We called it the Taiwan Victory Concert. It (attracted) 50,000 people. I think most of them, they sing along with some of our songs, even though they’re not ordinary metal fans. Even some pop artists, they cannot achieve that level. There are some pop artists in Taiwan they say they’re inspired by Chthonic, even (covering) our songs. We have gone some places we didn’t expect.”

The Victory Concert takes on an even greater significance when you realize that Lim was already an elected official at the time. Take a moment to think about that. Not just a heavy metal politician, but a black metal one at that. Lim was even encouraged by his staff during his first election run to not cut his hair, as the public was used to his heavy metal image. It sounds a bit mad, really. Like a some metalized version of an American comedy movie where the protagonist randomly becomes U.S. President. The unlikeliness of the situation is not lost on Lim.

“Yes, I think was it was quite dramatic,” he says laughing.

“Especially when I decided to run, there were a lot of people who (weren’t) serious about (it). They (thought) it might be a joke and I didn’t really mean it, but I meant it! So I carefully managed to win, and also try to expand the impact. That’s why I decided to form the new party. I was the representative of the new party in the beginning. The whole visual idea of the party, the logo and how we ran the campaign in the first year, it mostly was my idea. Also the art team for the party, those were (also) the art team for Chthonic. So in the beginning there were a lot of things going on with the Chthonic team.”


Freddy Lim speaking in the Legislative Yuan

The party that Lim is referring to is the New Power Party (NPP), which he founded in 2015 (he’s no longer a member, but we’ll get to that). Lim was already known for political activism, and he was often asked if he would ever consider running for office. It was assumed by many, including myself, that Chthonic’s use of Taiwanese history and mythology in their lyrics and image were tied to that activism. But to Lim, the 2 were always separate in his mind. Only now in his new position can he see why many took it the other way.

“Most of our lyrics are about history or mythology, so before I took the job I sang them with imagination mostly,” he says.

“But in recent years it’s kind of put 2 things together, imagination and the facts – the true world. In the old days when the fans would look between the lines to reflect (on) some of the meaning of the lyrics (and associate them with) the true world, I would always say ‘I respect your feelings, I respect your explanation, but for me it’s just imagination. For me it’s mythology and history.’ But in recent years when I sing all those songs, I can see why they see the reflection of the true world (laughs), because I’m in the true world, I’m trying to make the true world better. So I can see that some of the lyrics have the power to trigger the ear of the people (who want) to change Taiwan and make it a better country.”

"I can do more things, not just to win the seat but to prove to Taiwan that my way of fighting, my way of doing things works."

Lim was inspired by the wave of young people running in the 2016 election, and despite some initial concern about his chances, he was able to defeat the 5-term ultra-conservative incumbent in the Zhongzheng–Wanhua constituency. The Legislative Yuan is Taiwan’s parliament/congress, and like many countries, it’s dominated by 2 parties. The centre-left Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) is currently in power, while the Chinese nationalist Kuomintang (KMT) sits in opposition. Aside from winning his own seat, Lim managed to lead the NPP to third-party status in the Legislature, with the goal of using their new position to influence DPP policy. But in 2019, once Lim was no longer party chair, the NPP considered nominating a presidential candidate for the 2020 election. It was this discussion that would lead to Lim leaving the party he founded.

“The day I decided to leave the party… it was kind of difficult for me,” he says solemnly. 

“At the press conference, a journalist asked me ‘How do you feel?’ I stopped. For almost 30 seconds I can’t say anything. My tears almost dropped. (laughs nervously) But I collected my emotions. I put myself together in a short time. It was difficult because my district is a very conservative district, and according to the polls I was behind my opponent who was the (same as the first election). According to the polls I was quite a huge distance behind him. I knew the only thing I should focus on is (being) re-elected in my district. That’s the most important thing. I can do more things, not just to win the seat but to prove to Taiwan that my way of fighting, my way of doing things works. (The) idea to nominate a presidential candidate, I was pissed by that. We don’t even have enough staff to run the party, how are we going to run the country?! I had 3-4 jobs in the party. We should take things seriously. It’s not a joke! You can’t do things this way or you will lose people’s trust because all the citizens know that you are a small party, (that) you’ll run out of hands. So I decided to leave. I told them the only way is to support President Tsai (Ing-Wen), especially when (her) opponent, which was the KMT candidate, was very pro-China. The Chinese government (have) tried their best to infiltrate Taiwan, and the only way we can stop the infiltration is to stop the KMT candidate. Which means supporting President Tsai.”

Freddy Lim Resigning From The NPP (2019)

A number of key NPP party members followed Lim and left the party, and he was re-elected as an independent in his district in 2020. As an independent, Lim can only receive a limited amount of political contributions, but the upside is that he is able to move more freely and establish bi-partisan organizations within parliament. After his re-election he was visited by pro-democracy activists from Hong Kong, who urged him to form a caucus in support of their movement. He now chairs that caucus which includes representatives from 4 parties.

“The Chinese communists, they always say that the Hong Kong democratic activities were supported by the DPP, (and) it’s not true!” he says emphatically.

“It’s excuses always used by the Chinese communists. So as an independent, it’s much easier for me. The 2 major parties, they have strong conflicts. They confront each other hard. Sometimes we need to be neutral and need to show the united power of Taiwan with (bi-partisanship). That’s what I should do in this phase right now.”

"I think for people like the Hong Kongers, they got oppressed by the Chinese government much more than me. So I just have to take care of my own safety, that’s not that difficult."

Lim has never been quiet about his opinions of the Chinese government, and it does seem that the feeling is mutual. In 2018 Chthonic was denied a visa to perform in Hong Kong with singer and activist Denise Ho, who duets with Lim on the track “Millennia's Faith Undone.” Lim was also physically attacked in parliament by a KMT legislator who wanted to disrupt the confirmation of committee members nominated by President Tsai. On his way to vote Lim was assaulted as the KMT member attempted to grab the vote from his pocket. There are of course, larger safety concerns. Lim rarely speaks about his family or relationships publicly, and has become even more cautious after entering politics for fear of pro-China extremists, whom he says are backed by both organized crime and Chinese governmental agents. Despite this knowledge, Lim shows little fear when speaking about any potential threats.

“Yes, my friends always ask me to hire more bodyguards, (laughs) for me and my family,” he says casually.

“With the infiltration of China now in Taiwan, some Hong Kong activists (when) they travel in Taiwan they are attacked by some… I don’t want to say they’re spies, but they’re hired hands. Definitely, sometimes I’m concerned with my own safety as well. But I think for people like the Hong Kongers, they got oppressed by the Chinese government much more than me. So I just have to take care of my own safety, that’s not that difficult. They have to get exiled, or arrested if they are in Hong Kong. So yeah, I think I’m fine. I’m concerned about my safety a bit, my family too. But yeah, we’ll be fine.”


Freddy Lim performs at Roar Now! Bankgah (2020)

With the hopes of so many on his shoulders this begs the question, when do Lim and Chthonic find the time for metal activities? Their most recent album, 2018’s Golden Melody-winning Battlefields of Asura, was arranged by Lim and guitarist Jesse Liu from material written in 2013. The band doesn’t play more than once a year, and the shows are posted in their entirety on YouTube and Facebook. With the pandemic largely under control in Taiwan, their next performance is this Saturday, March 27th, at a masked and socially-distanced Megaport Music Festival.

“Chthonic will play just to support, because don’t have international artists for the festival this year,” says Lim.

“Most of the local artists will play and we will headline. Our rock and dance music festivals are still being put on, and our traditional ceremonies and feasts are still being put on. Religious rituals are still going. Department stores, shopping malls are open. People go sightseeing like usual, but just with masks and social distancing. I think we are very lucky, because we are so close to China. We implemented pandemic prevention mechanisms very fast and early. The pandemic didn’t affect Taiwan too much. The local cases (as of March 3rd, 2021), we have only 9 deaths, and 77 local cases. We are one of the countries that have contained the pandemic best. We kind of continued daily life, the ordinary way, but of course with masks and social distancing.”

Aside from posting it online, the band plans to release a live album of their set at Megaport, including a physical edition with a special Chthonic “Made In Taiwan” mask, since Lim feels masks are now part of our fashion culture. He also hopes he can encourage other metal bands to have their masks made in Taiwan as well.

"Although Taiwan seems far away from you, please understand that Taiwan is the frontline against the Chinese tyrant authoritarian regime."

It's a lot to take in. Lim and Chthonic have managed to achieve symbiosis between extreme metal music, mainstream culture, and national politics, all while under the eye of an authoritarian power. I first met Lim on the road about 13 years ago, and although he spoke passionately about his beliefs and causes, there is a distinct difference now. When Lim speaks now there is a grim determination and a sharpened focus that shows his passion has become intent, because change is actually within his reach.

If Chthonic does ever play outside of Taiwan again, it won’t be for many years. As such, I wanted to know what Lim would say to foreign fans of his music, who might feel detached from his current job and political efforts.

“First of all I hope you will still enjoy all the songs and videos that we post online, (because) we don’t have time to tour around the world anymore,” he says.

“Although Taiwan seems far away from you, please understand that Taiwan is the frontline against the Chinese tyrant authoritarian regime. (There are) a lot of infiltrations that you might find in your own country. I know in Canada, in the United States, or in Europe you can see a lot of different Chinese agencies in schools and in communities. They’ve been seen in different industries. Even in Hollywood, you can see that a lot of movies have been made to obey the Chinese government’s standards. They have to change the storyline of the movie just to follow the rules of Chinese communists. You might (think) that Taiwan is very far away and threats from China is something that you might not need to care about. But actually things have got a bit different in your own country too. It makes your life different. It changes your freedom, your free way of living. So try to know more about what happens in this region, in this so-called ‘Far East.’ (Not just) because you want to care more about the people under oppression, but also (because you) want to protect what you have in the free world right now. I do believe if the people in the free world, if we work together, if we are united, we can make the world better, and we can find a better way to deal with the biggest authoritarian government in human history, and to change them.”

Chthonic will play the Megaport Music Festival this Saturday, March 27th. You can watch the full 2019 Taiwan Victory Concert below, or you can listen to it via Spotify. The band also has tons more content on their YouTube page.


Goatwhore 2021: (L to R) Zack Simmons (Drums), Robert "TA" Coleman (Bass), Louis B. Falgoust II (Vocals), Sammy Duet (Guitars, Vocals)
Photo by Peter Beste

With COVID-19 vaccinations now underway, there unfortunately remains a small but vocal minority who generate skepticism of the vaccine with extreme conspiracy theories. However I’m sure they weren’t counting on people like Goatwhore guitarist Sammy Duet, taking their message a bit differently.

“It’s supposed to have a microchip in it, and the mark of the beast,” he says.

“I’ve been waiting for this!”

Duet has also been patiently waiting for the return of live music, both as a musician and a fan, and tomorrow (Saturday, January 9th) Goatwhore finally returns to the stage for a special livestream performance. Streaming from an undisclosed location in Florida, Duet promises more than just a jamspace set, with professional lighting and multiple cameras. But I had to make sure that he was going to strap on his trademark spikes for the occasion.

“Of course, man!” he exclaims.

“You think we’re gettin’ lazy in our old age?!”

Goatwhore has been steadily working on a new album since 2019. Their most recent release was 2017’s Vengeful Ascension, and it was around that time that Duet (also a veteran of acclaimed bands Acid Bath and Crowbar) really started to notice the band’s increased popularity. For over 2 decades the New Orleans outfit gigged hard and spread their signature black/death/thrash blend city by city, town by town, and they now find themselves regularly in the headline slot.

“It only took us 25 years!” says Duet laughing loudly.

“Especially after Vengeful Ascension came out I started realizing, looking back on when we first started, how far the band has come. If you would have told me when we first started doing Goatwhore that I would be where I’m at right now as far as the fanbase and the touring, I would have told you (that) you were fucking insane.”

The band won’t be playing any new material during tomorrow's show, as Duet thinks it’s possible the songs may not sound the same once they get into the studio. Recording sessions for the new album are set to begin February 15th, with the band looking to pick around 10 of the 16 songs they’ve written. In the meantime Duet has been busy hanging out with fans on his Instagram livestream. Although Duet has always been friendly with fans, regularly chatting with them before and after sets, I was a bit surprised as to how much he's embraced social media.

“I was just basically gonna post pictures of my guitars and my cats, I wasn’t gonna do anything beyond that,” he says.

“It kinda blew up from there (laughs). It got a lot bigger than I thought it would. I thought it would only be a bunch of guitar nerds. I have to do a livestream every Sunday. People wanna hang out and talk, just bullshit, and listen to tunes. It’s a good thing for me to have because I love our fans, and I love communicating with our fans, and meeting (them) as much as I possibly can. I’m not on tour and hanging out with everybody, so this is the best I can do for now.”

"These 2 certain things that make my life very amazing, it was either keep them or keep the alcohol."

Before the pandemic began Duet was already a homebody, so with the exception of not being able to attend the occasional show, his routine hasn’t changed much. The biggest event for him in recent memory is celebrating 1 year being completely clean and sober. Not being on tour during a crucial time in his sobriety ended up being helpful, and he’s ready for the challenge of returning to the road.

“I feel that (because) I wasn’t able to be around that temptation, it actually worked out (in) that I’m becoming a lot stronger within my willpower, rather than if I’d been on tour 6 months ago,” he says thoughtfully.

“I might not have been able to resist. (When) I’m playing a show, people are offering me drugs and alcohol, and there’s a bar right there. The temptations when playing a live show if you’re an alcoholic or a drug addict are tremendous. I feel pretty strong and pretty confident that I can do this without having to get fucked, y’know! (laughs). It’s all about what I can do besides drinking to kill time. You can get really creative if you want to, or, you can do what you’re supposed to and practice your instrument. You only… how can I say this?.. You’re only as good as you think you are. There’s always room for improvement. That’s my plan. Right now, where I stand, I’m completely infatuated with my instrument again. Completely, 100%. I have a new found love for it, you might say. Not that I ever didn’t, but I feel like my love for the guitar has come back to where I was like 14 years old again. That’s all I think about now!” (laughs)

I mentioned to Duet that I’d noticed that many people I know had given up alcohol during quarantine, with my own intake dropping drastically. So when I first heard of his sobriety I made the assumption that the downtime was his catalyst as well, when in fact he got sober a few months earlier.

“(There are) a couple of things that are very dear to me, that I came very close to losing because of my drinking,” he says carefully.

“So it was time to kick myself in the ass. These 2 certain things that make my life very amazing, it was either keep them or keep the alcohol. I’m not gonna go in detail about what these 2 things were. Let’s just say I didn’t choose the alcohol.” 

"I tend to lean more towards the devil worshipping side of things."

While Sammy’s life is more of an open book these days, he’s always kept his more personal beliefs shrouded in mystery. In one of our earliest interviews, I recalled asking Duet about the Satanic elements in the band’s music and artwork. His response at the time was to say that he didn’t talk about those things, because of the way he believes in them. Since then I had always wanted to know if he was being sincere when he said that, or if perhaps he was playing things up for a then-bright-eyed baby journalist.

“Yes, that’s absolute truth!” he says with a hint of enthusiasm.  

“What I do with my spirituality behind closed doors, is my business. I have a very different outlook on the way people perceive… worship of the devil. I keep that very, very private, and it’s a very personal thing to me as far as going into the details. There is to me a difference between being a Satanist, and being a devil worshipper. I tend to lean more towards the devil worshipping side of things. I was into (Satanism) for a while, and it’s still cool. I would definitely take that over Christianity any day of the week. That was almost like a gateway to what brought me to where I am now as far as my spirituality goes. What I believe in and what I practice is very, very different from that. But we all love that Satan guy! It’s all in how you show him how much you love him!” (audibly smiling)


Sammy Duet's "Circle of Evocation"

This response, mixed with Goatwhore’s malevolent lyrical content and artwork, would make one think that Duet’s beliefs run throughout his creative work. But in fact, he keeps the majority of them out of it. While he approves of bands like Watain who put the spiritual aspect of their music front-and-center in their lyrics and live shows, it’s not something he’s interested in doing.

“I don’t want people to understand,” he says.

“This is my thing that I fuckin’ developed. It’s a mishmash of different ideas and philosophies. It’s for me, it’s not for everyone else. Very, very little of that stuff creeps into the lyrics. The way I kind of word it, it’s extremely abstract. You have to kind of know what I’m talking about to find it. When I’m writing lyrics I like to keep it a little weird and not straightforward. You can definitely see the difference between the lyrics that I write, and the lyrics that (vocalist) Ben (Falgoust) writes. Where Ben’s are almost like tongue in cheek, fuckin’ straight up, and I like to make it more clouded, where it kind of doesn’t make sense but it does make sense.”

This duality has always been the most intriguing aspect of Duet’s character. He’s incredibly friendly and warm, with a wicked old-school sense of humour. You always feel like you’re speaking to the real Sammy. While the music of Goatwhore is dark, seeing them play has always been about having a good time with a big smile on your face. So although Duet isn’t up for sharing the deeper aspects of his spirituality, he did share one insight into his practices that only served to cement the dualistic image of him in my mind.

“Something, gave me an idea for some of the artwork that was in (the 2014 album) Constricting Rage of the Merciless,” he says carefully.

“There are certain pieces of artwork (where) something was speaking through me that wasn’t me, that came up with the idea for this piece of artwork that’s on that record. It’s almost like a circle of evocation. I wrote those phrases inside the circle, I have no recollection of that. It’s like when you’re half asleep and but you’re half awake, almost like sleepwalking. Something that I was calling at that period of time, was definitely answering. That piece of artwork was some of the answer that this thing gave me.”

Goatwhore’s livestream concert airs tomorrow, Saturday January 9th, at 6PM EST. Tickets are $12 USD, and you’ll be able to watch the show for 48 hours after the broadcast. You can also stream the Vengeful Ascension album in full below.


Fuck The Facts 2020: (L to R) Melanie Mongeon (vocals), Mathieu Vilandre (drums), Topon Das (guitar)
Photo by Anndy Negative

Ottawa’s Fuck The Facts have recently returned after a 5 year absence with a new album, Pleine Noirceur. What began as a basement tape project with an unmarketable name from guitarist/founder Topon Das, has since gone on to grab 2 Juno nominations and international recognition. All the while playing an avant-garde form of grindcore, arguably extreme metal’s most inaccessible subgenre. What sets Fuck The Facts apart sonically from many of their peers, is their ability to craft extreme metal music that effectively conveys heartfelt emotion, even if the listener doesn’t necessarily know it.

"We’re definitely not a grindcore band."

“Emotion’s a big part of the writing, I love emotional music,” says Das.

“I grew up listening to the (the 1992) Paradise Lost (album) Shades of God, early Katatonia, a lot of early doom stuff that’s not grindcore at all. But that’s where I get a lot of my melodic ideas, that I even use in some of our grindy-er stuff. We’re definitely not a grindcore band. The influence is there, but I know someone’s like ‘Oh, grindcore!’ and they click on our stuff, they’re gonna be like ‘What the fuck, (laughs) this doesn’t sound like Wormrot or Rotten Sound!’ They’re gonna be very confused. We’re always kind of attached (to) that tag. I don’t think it’s a bad thing, but musically we have so many different influences. We’d be cheating ourselves if we didn’t embrace all these different ideas and make the music that we really wanna make. This album, if feels like a Fuck The Facts album to me because it has all those hills and valleys, and it has all the dynamics, and has different ideas. There’s definitely periods with the band where I kinda felt a little bit stifled, or constrained artistically. I was like, ‘Oh can we do this, cause we’re that Canadian grindcore band?’ I always hated that feeling because it’s not in my personality. My mind goes a million miles an hour when I sit down and I start to think about ideas, it goes everywhere. That’s (the kind of music) I’d like the band to put out. I just feel like we’re open to doing anything, and I feel like we’ve got back to that. We’re not like an amazing death metal band, or an amazing grindcore band, but we grab all these influences and we manage to make it our own thing. I think we do that really well.”

Their previous album, 2015’s self-released Desire Will Rot, was responsible for their 2nd Juno nomination and they promoted it with touring in Canada, the U.S, and Europe. But then things seemed to go quiet for some time. I knew that Das was busy with his recording studio, Apartment 2, not to mention raising 2 kids with vocalist Melanie Mongeon. But I hadn’t realized that despite their enthusiastic performances on that tour, the album title was more personal than they let on.

“When we did Desire Will Rot, it’s (called that) because of what was going on,” says Das frankly.

“Really whenever we do anything we’re talking about our own lives and the way we feel. When we went and did all those tours and we put out that album, we knew that that might be it. It’s nothing that we wanted to make public. But we did all that stuff knowing it was just gonna stop and we were all gonna go about doing our own thing, and whatever happens, happens. It was a much needed change. I kept busy the whole time, I was recording other peoples’ bands, I worked at a venue doing live sound. I haven’t been away from music. (When) we got back together it was me reaching out to Vil (drummer Mathieu Vilandre) to see if we just wanted to start jamming, and see what came of it. I think the last 2-3 years that we toured and did stuff heavily, I wasn’t really enjoying it. I kept doing it because I was so used to doing it and going through those motions. But it was just becoming a job and it wasn’t enjoyable like it was before. Some of the situations that we were in, some of the shows that we were doing, you get to this point where you’re like ‘Why am I here? Why am I on the other side of the world playing to 10 people?’ That stuff’s a lot of fun but it makes more sense when you’re 25 than when you’re 35 and then 40. It’s like, I should be at home with my kids at this point in my life”

Although what Das describes seems a natural part of life as an underground musician who starts a family, it did come as a little bit of a surprise to me. Their personal lives always seemed inextricably linked to the band. There are of course memories of the videos that circulated through the underground of Mongeon performing while she was very pregnant. But in general, having a family didn’t seem to affect Fuck The Facts as band. But that’s not what was going on beneath the surface.

“Before, it was always like the band comes first, everything else comes second,” says Das.

“If you have a job, then fuck it, you have to quit that job so we can go on tour. Now, Mel had the opportunity to take a full-time position at her job that she loves. We bought a house. Vil bought a house. Everyone has real-life responsibilities, we can’t just jump on the road and do a grindcore tour like we used it. When my first daughter was born we did shows in L.A. and Mel was pregnant and she gave birth (10 days later). Then we were back on the road (for) a 5 week tour and then we went to Europe. It didn’t really slow us down. It’s a good thing but it’s also a complication that both Mel and I are in the band. Both the parents are leaving and the kids (are) staying at the grandparents for a couple months. I definitely miss my kids and I know for Mel it was even more difficult to be away. When I started the band I was like ‘I’m gonna tour until I die. I’m gonna do all this stuff until I die.’ Then I got older and things just kinda changed.”

"When I started in my dad’s basement with a 4-track, this shit didn’t even exist, I just kinda like, did it."

So the band began their unannounced hiatus. With no plans to jam, record, or tour in the near future, they settled into life without Fuck The Facts for the first time in 15 years. Das spent his days recording and mixing bands at Apartment 2, and nights working at the venue. But the door never closed on restarting the band. So after some time apart they began to drift back together. But this time it was on their terms, and the album that would become Pleine Noirceur developed slowly.

“There was a year or so where (the band) didn’t do anything at all,” he says.

“This album we’ve kinda been working on behind the scenes for a while. Mel and I first talked about jamming, and (then) I talked to Vil. At this point I’ve been jamming with Vil for like 15 years, so it’s really easy chemistry. We just started (jamming) like once a week. When we were at our peak, when we were busy like crazy, we’d jam like 4 times a week. But this time there wasn’t any intention of like ‘We’re gonna work on an album.’ When the band stopped, I put all this shit in the rearview mirror. I’m totally out of the loop of what new band is out or what (they’ve released). I didn’t check any of the gossipy metal sites or read anything about anyone because I (was) tired of all this and (didn’t) want to pay attention. I feel like it could be the least ‘tainted’ album and the most ‘pure’ in the way of us really just doing what we wanted to do. When I started in my dad’s basement with a 4-track, this shit didn’t even exist, I just kinda like, did it. That’s kind of the same thing, and I think that’s a really fun thing that came out of it.  We could have just jammed and like 6 months later been like ‘Ah, I’m not feeling this, alright see ya,’ and everything would have been cool. We’ve put something together that we’re actually really proud of and felt like it was worth releasing. It wasn’t for a tour or a label. We made a pressing, and we’ll sell the pressing and everyone kind of moves on and we’ll see what’s next.”

“What’s next?” is a very good question at this point. At the end of 2019 Das left his job at the venue to spend more time with his kids. He also wants to work on more music, as the band hasn’t had a chance to jam since the pandemic started. In the meantime they’ve been putting together ideas on their own in the hopes that it won’t be another 5 years before they release their next album. But even taking on Fuck The Facts on a limited basis can rub up against family, triggering memories of life before their hiatus.

“Mel and I, we were working on packing all the pre-orders for this album and going kinda nuts because we both have jobs during the day,” Das says laughing.

“Then we spent all our evenings packing orders. We sent our kids to the grandparents just so we could spend the weekend packing orders, and we had that moment like ‘Fuck this is crazy! It’s awesome, but this is crazy!’ Mel was like, ‘Sometimes I just feel like quitting the band but I know I’m just gonna end up back here anyway!’ (laughs) Those moments, just a little flashback to when you’re like ‘This is so crazy that we’re doing this!’ I definitely would love to play more shows. Ideally if we didn’t have this pandemic we would be playing some album release shows. We were supposed to play Maryland Deathfest in May, and then that all shit the bed. That would have been fun. We just gotta play it by ear and see what happens and do what feels right.”


Mongeon working on album pre-orders
Via Instagram

Ultimately it seems like Das has achieved his goal of having a good work/life balance, with Fuck The Facts still a part of both, but not the dominant factor. The shutdown from the pandemic actually gave Das time to finish the album and be with his family, and he recognizes the good position he’s in. Despite the aforementioned “hills and valleys” of Fuck The Facts’ music, Das himself never seems quite as complicated.

“We’re actually in a pretty lucky situation,” he says.

“My oldest is back in school. My youngest is at daycare. Mel works from home. I’m able to do a lot of my work from home as well. I’ve slowly starting doing some recording sessions at the studio. I’m sure it sucks worse for a lot of other people. Especially people who are living on their own, and especially younger people. But we have a family and everything, and all our jobs are intact. We’ve managed to cope pretty well. The studio, that’s my job, my main source of income. I balance it fairly well, that I still have free time and that I can still do things that I enjoy and I’m not gonna feel like life is just passing me by. Luckily I keep a pretty lowkey lifestyle, so I don’t need a lot in my life to make me happy.”

Fuck The Facts’ new self-released album Pleine Noirceur is available now. Buy a hard copy from the band, a digital copy from Bandcamp, and stream it on Spotify or YouTube. You can watch the videos for the title track, and “Ailleurs” below.